Decision ‘08

With Or Without Dean

Was Howard Dean’s 50-state strategy a stroke of brilliance, or did it cost Democrats an even larger margin in the House? That’s the question behind a raging post-election controversy. Ryan Lizza of The New Republic:

Some big name Democrats want to oust DNC Chairman Howard Dean, arguing that his stubborn commitment to the 50-state strategy and his stinginess with funds for House races cost the Democrats several pickup opportunities.

The candidate being floated to replace Dean? Harold Ford.

Says James Carville, one of the anti-Deaniacs, “Suppose Harold Ford became chairman of the DNC? How much more money do you think we could raise? Just think of the difference it could make in one day. Now probably Harold Ford wants to stay in Tennessee. I just appointed myself his campaign manager.”

Kos responds in his tempered, moderate, non-ideological way:

Carville needs to shut the f**k up. If he wants a war, we’ll give him one.

And it won’t be a war that DC can win.

A class act, through and through…hey, Markos, when do you unveil that secret plan to make the DLC radioactive?…

UPDATE 2:50 p.m.: A second question for Markos: how’d that war with Lieberman turn out? Oh, yeah, right…he’s featured in the New York Times as he wins back his seniority after his huge victory. You sure showed him!…how’s poor Ned doing, anyway?…

UPDATE 2:58 p.m.: Markos at the grocery store:

“I thought the kleenex were on aisle seven.”

“I’m sorry, sir, you’re mistaken. They’re on aisle nine.”

“You need to shut the f**k up. If it’s a war you want, I’ll give you one.”…

UPDATE 7:08 p.m.: Chris Bowers joins the war declaration:

If Howard Dean is ousted as DNC chair, I will start a campaign for all small donors and all netroots actiivsts to stop giving money to the DNC, DSCC, DCCC, DLCC and NGA. This is not an idle threat. Democratic parties and committees will lose tens of millions of dollars every year if they do this. Count on it.

Tens of millions? *Cough, cough*…ahem…so the Nutroots® control…TENS OF MILLIONS? I didn’t realize Chris Bowers was, like, George Soros…

Bwaaaahaaaahaaaaa…this is going to be a fun two years!…

33 Responses to “With Or Without Dean”

1 Dmac Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
This guy often reminds one of the type of automobile driver who habitually showcases a severe case of Tourette’s Syndrome, but when encountered in a different setting is probably normal, at least upon first meeting.

OTOH, this guy wouldn’t last more than 3 minutes if he started talking that way to someone face - to - face. At least, not in my neighborhood.
2 Aaron Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
At least it took us a decade before we started bickering. The Dems haven’t even officially taken control yet and they’re already at each others’ throats. Yeah, this House majority will last . . .
3 Anonymous Liberal Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Look, I don’t think Kos is helping matters by reacting to Carville that way, but he has every right to be angry. As does Dean. The Democrats just had their best election in decades. This is a time when Democrats should be congratulating each other and Republicans should be publicly knifing each other. Kos himself wrote a long post earlier today congratulating everyone on the Democratic side for their efforts, including the establishment types (Emanuel, Schumer, etc.) who he is usually at logger-heads with. But how do Carville and the establishment wing respond? By publicly knifing Howard Dean. How incredibly petty and destructive. Now the press can focus on Democratic in-fighting instead of Republican in-fighting. Great. Well done, Carville.

This is actually a very selfish act on the part of Carville and the people he represents. They know that the rapidly forming conventional wisdom is that Dean’s 50-state strategy has been vindicated, and they want to keep Dean from becoming more powerful. This is a selfish power-play by the establishment types. Kos shouldn’t take their bait, though. It will just turn it into a bigger story than it needs to be. Dean was democratically elected and he has the support of the state parties. Carville and his friends can gripe all they want, but Dean isn’t going anywhere.
4 mikeski Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
“This isn’t diet!!”

“I’m sorry, sir, our mistake. Here, I’ll get you anoth-”

“Mistake, my ass! You need to shut the f**k up! You want a cola war, I’ll give you one!!!!!!!!!”
5 Nathan Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
KOS: Puttins smiles on conservative faces even under the most challenging of circumstances.
6 fred lapides Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
The usual vitrilic outbursts here. As for Joe L.: it was the Republican party that won the race for him. The Republican that ran against Lamont and Joe got slaughterd because Joe is pro-Bush. Not to worry.When Joe sees who has the power, that is where he wil be. That is his usual way of acting.
7 Fred edwards Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
anonymous liberal says that now the press can concentrate on democratic instead of republican in-fighting. The left wing MSM won’t follow it except possibly with a small blurb circa page 17 or further back. Wouldn’t want to embarass their buddies.
8 Walter E. Wallis Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
If Bush had started a month earlier, republicans would have won. His fu**ing Country Club don’t fight attitude that let enyone walk over him without response is what let democrats, in spite of their usual stupid moves, eke out a win.
9 Steve White Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
AL wrote: This is a time when Democrats should be congratulating each other and Republicans should be publicly knifing each other.

This presumes that Democrats can ever be happy, and that Republicans should be knifing each other.

Other than Bill Clinton I can’t think of a single Democrat who ever looks really happy. Something always is upsetting them, something somewhere isn’t just perfect. Pres. Clinton, on the other hand, looks at life as one grand adventure. More Democrats should be like that.

Republicans know that before they can knife each other, they have to knife themselves. This was our election to lose and we did a great job of it. There are lots and lots of Republicans to take the blame here. And because of that, what you’ve seen on the conservative and Republican weblogs, public comments, etc., has been a reserved “Houston, we know we have a problem” attitude. We know where we blew, we just can’t figure out why we didn’t fix it in time.

Just a thought.
10 Letalis Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Carville wants to throw Dean over the side, huh? Well, inasmuch as I can’t stand either of them, I don’t really have a dog in this fight. However, it does strike me as a move by the Clintonistas (and Carville is without a doubt a member of that Clavern) to purge their enemies, you know?
11 tim maguire Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 6:27 pm
…and Republicans should be publicly knifing each other.

With that exception, I agree with everything Anonymous Liberal says. I had no faith in the Democrats ability to pull this off, and yet they did. Could they have done better without Dean? I don’t know, but I’d say Democrats did well enough that they shouldn’t be fighting each other just yet. And anyone who gets pushed out should go with a medal.
12 gerryg Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
Look, this election was very typical of second-term mid-election losses.

It fell far short of the 1994 Republican victory.

In all likelihood, it means nothing in terms of the conservative orientation of the majority, since many “Blue Dog Democrats” were elected instead of Republicans.

Carville, who is, by the way, Evil Incarnate, knows this. He knows that Dean’s strategy was a failure because to REALLY have a sea change in politics is to win 50 seats in an election, and in that Dean bombed big time. The Republicans - who, predictably enough, are not blaming their losses on machines, faulty polling, evil elections officials, and who are not suing county elections officials big time, and who are not bringing in rhyming reverends to point out how stupid the electorate is by damning chads and ballot designs, and who are not demanding fifteen recounts in every close precinct, are quietly licking their wounds and considering what to do differently next time to win.

The Dems did as I expected: win the House and the Senate (you see, I was pretty sure they’d win the House and, historically, whenever the House flips, so does the Senate). I thought they’d gain 15 seats, and they doubled that, but it’s still far short of a massive change in the nation’s political drift. And they seem to be heading in precisely the direction I also think they will: over the self-inflicted wounding cliff of infighting and extremism. George McGovern is on the way with his lackeys and surrogates, and unless the Clintoons can stop him, it’ll be 1972 all over again in 2008! WOO-HOO!
13 Dmac Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
“This is a time when Democrats should be congratulating each other…”

Yes, and intelligent Dems like Carville know that they have to throw the nutters like Kos and Dean out the window ASAP, before the rest of the country realizes the type of elements that the Dems harbor these days. They don’t need the ghouls of the past to start haunting the same electorate that gave them the keys to the kingdom in the first place. Smart strategy, and as usual the Troll - Bot missed it entirely.
14 Scape-Goat Trainee Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
With that exception, I agree with everything Anonymous Liberal says. I had no faith in the Democrats ability to pull this off, and yet they did. Could they have done better without Dean? I don’t know, but I’d say Democrats did well enough that they shouldn’t be fighting each other just yet. And anyone who gets pushed out should go with a medal.

All they did is…slightly less than average for a mid-term congressional election.
15 Gwedd Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
Comrades,

Well, after a couple of bottles of choice bourbon, it’s time to come up for air.

The Dem’s have control of the Legislative branch of government. They’ve been playing the aggrieved victim for 12 yars now, crying about this, shouting about that, stomping their collective feet and holding their breath. Well, now they’re in charge. it’s time to either put up or shut up.

They were elected because they said they had a “new direction”. I guarentee you if that “new direction” includes “hearings and investigations without end” and the BDS pogroms they’ve alluded to (and Kos and his tinfoil-hat brigades) are demanding, well, the US electorate will have no problem voting Republican in ‘08.

This is a very tenuous position for the Dems, and I’m not certain they fully realize it. If they act like I expect they will ( and God Bless us one and all for the gift of Howard Dean and l’il JFK… gifts that just keep on giving!) it’ll be a fun two years, counting the days until the great Red Tide sweeps them all back out to sea.

Respects,

Gwedd
16 Mark Borok Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
All they did is…slightly less than average for a mid-term congressional election

Maybe everyone wouldn’t be so impressed if Rove et al hadn’t been hyping a “permanent Republican majority”, if the Republicans hadn’t acquired the aura of invulnerability and the Democrats one of utter incompetence.

I fail to see how the 50-state strategy is a bad idea, especially if the Dems’ increase in the number of legislatures and governorships is added to the mix.

Oh, and getting the vapors over a blogger’s use of a four letter word, well, that’s kind of lame.
17 Mark Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Oh, yeah, Mark, that’s the whole point of the post - he used the f-word! Oh, little scandalized me!

Apparently you don’t know the history of Kos and his li’l tyrant tantrums against centrist bodies like the DLC…

All Carville did was express his opinion, as is his God-given right, and petulant little Blogger Boy declares ‘war’.

That’s inclusion for you…and it’s typical of Kos’s delusions of grandeur…
18 hutch1200 Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Getting Carville in charge is just a way of giving Hillary all the money for’08.
19 Gwedd Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Comrades,

I’ll add another coupla’cents here as well. Lady Hillary isn’t going to sit idly by and let the psycho-left ruin her chance to be the next President. She might be all well and good towards them to gain the majority in Congress, and she’s the modern female Machiavelli who can manipulate them to a certain end, but she’ll also happily play Lucrecia Borgia to them and see them off into the vast darkness of that long political night if they start to get too uppity.

Mark my words here, fellas… Hillary is already in campaign mode, and her sending James “Dr Death” Carville out on the airwaves is just a shot across the bows. He’s there to start seeding doubt amongst the tin-foil hate wearers, and begin edging them off the stage. Dean’s been a useful idiot, as has LiL JFK, but they aren’t long for the political world, and will certainly be marginalized by the time Iowa rolls around.

Nope…. it’s likely that the Dems, despite Hillary’s best work, will self-destruct by 2008 and hand the election over to the GOP. All the GOP has to do is seem reasonably sober and coherant, and stay out of the Dem’s limelight. I mean, really…. you can’t make up the stuff the dems spout off… and now that they’ve caromed the GOP off the stage, they’ve got the spotlight all to themselves. they better hope to heck they can be entertaining, else it’s black-edged reviews for them, and sooner rather than later.

Respects,

Gwedd
20 Letalis Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
I believe I said that, Hutch.
21 JB Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 8:58 pm
Mmmmmmmmmmm, Bourbon. Thanks Gwedd! Now I’m thirsty and It’s at least two hours till happy-hour.
22 Sean P Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
“However, it does strike me as a move by the Clintonistas (and Carville is without a doubt a member of that Clavern) to purge their enemies, you know?”

Boy, does it ever. Specifically, this looks like a proxy war between Gore (Dean’s ally) and Clinton.
23 Gwedd Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
Comrades,

And in case anyone else thinks that Hillary (and Bill) seem sort of in a Deja-Vu mode, well, civilization has seen these two before. I refer you to the works of Procopius, for a little, er, well, it’s not LIGHT reading, but it’s entertaining. Specifically, although his 8-volumes are good, those with less patience can skip to the “Secret Histories” he wrote later in life, after the initial 8 volumes.

Bill & Hillary are just modern day counterparts to Byzantium’s Justinian and Theodora, to Bellisarius and his cunning, power-lusting wife. That Clinton Clan has the art of Byzantine Court down pretty doggone well, and folks would do well read up a bit on the subject before the game is on full-tilt.

Respects,

Gwedd
24 Scrapiron Says:
November 11th, 2006 at 12:33 am
The first proof that the dim’s won without a plan for America or the WOT was when they called in George McGovern, the leader of the massive loss of life in Southeast Asia, along with Hanoi John, during their first successful ‘cut and run’ operation. One thing about the dim’s, they love to have the blood of miliions on they’re hands.

Poor old KOS is on the verge of slitting his wrist, setting himself on fire and jumping from a tall building. Think Lamont has demanded his $12 million + back?

Looking forward to a fun two years. That is if we live through it.
25 Seamus Says:
November 11th, 2006 at 2:39 am
Seriously, we’re running out of feet to shoot.
26 Bob Jacobs Says:
November 11th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
Lemont was an empty suit and that is why he lost. He could not even win in an enviroment that was anti-Iraq.
27 FullosseousFlap’s Dental Blog » President Election 2008 Watch: KOS V. CARVILLE Says:
November 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
[…] Flap loves a good CAT FIGHT. (Via Ace) […]
28 peter Says:
November 11th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
The Democrats have been deteriorating for a while as a national party operation. Dean came in at a time when the party had abandoned a good chunk of the country after years of the Dems trying to focus their efforts in the places where they would be most successful.

The problem for the Dems now is that this is was a one-time deal. After you’ve reactivated in all fifty states you can’t do it again, and thus you can’t get the same benefit again. Dean better have more than one trick in his bag.
29 Rational Says:
November 12th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Leave Dean alone is my message to Carville - he’s done more for the Democrats (constituents) than anyone I can remember in my Democratic voting lifetime which started in 1973. He should start worrying about Barack Obama because if he thinks Hillary will make it . . . he’s dead wrong.
30 Major Minor Says:
November 13th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Others have observed that Clinton is one of the few Democrats that actually looks happy. I’ve always maintained that this is because he never bought into the philosophy of misery and pessimism that drives most liberals who actually believe their party’s propaganda.

Unlike his wife, the committed Marxist, Slick Willie never had any real political philosophy at all, but just adopted whatever protective coloration that he thought would sell to the public and get him the power and ego-gratification (amongst other types) by which he is driven.

In other cultures, he’d have happily embraced Mormonism, the anti-Masonic ticket, or cannibalism if he thought it would help the marketing effort.

Beliefs be damned — he discovered his market niche, marketed the product successfully, and got what he wanted. Who wouldn’t be happy?
31 Decision ‘08 » Blog Archive » Media Matters: A New Low In Pettiness Says:
November 13th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
[…] Mr. Soros, how about you give these people a real job somewhere, and fold up this sham? Besides, you’re irrelevant now that Chris Bowers controls tens of millions of dollars of Democratic donor money… […]
32 Anti DLC Says:
November 16th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
There it is. The Democrats win and Carville wants to discredit victory because his DLC dems are losing grip of their consulting jobs that they have had for over a decade in charge of the party. They should now volunteer there time to campaigns and do the right thing. They have made their money.

Talk about thrift with funds and partonage. I remember the DNC people Carville had found work for at the DNC. They blackballed dems they felt were there equal. The played the republican game. Jimmy Carville, Whouley and his cronies are out or not having such an influence anymore. Yea, we appreciate their help and yours but we won’t have Harold Ford another DLCer continuing to dictate to us. Howard Dean’s campaign was a movement and you know it.

The press hated him for alot of reasons but some of your AP and UPI friends did him in by highlighting off key remarks or jestures in his Presidential campaign. If they had highlighted Kerry giggling as firemen punched women to the ground at a Saint Anselem’s College debate in New Hampshire, his campaign would have been over and your old cronies would have had to campaign for someone else.

Howard Dean has done alot for the party Jimmy. You and Paul had your chance and we got Newt. David Wilhelm wasn’t the brighest bulb on the tree.

Calm Down

Don’t your kids have Soccer practice or something.
33 Armed Liberal Says:
November 19th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Yeah, the MyDD and Kos folks will pull back their support from the party. Note that Lamont raised $13.9 million - $10.7 of which was his own. So in the premiere netroots campaign, they raised $3.2 million for a Senatorial campaign?

Sorry, but I’m unimpressed. I think the Internet matters a lot in politics, and that the tools and networks built by the net politics folks - of whom the D netroots are the most vocal and prominent collection - are damn valuable.

But Chris Bowers and Kos are no Mark Hannas. And that’s a good thing…

A.L.