My Second-Ever Atrios Imitation…
I’m off to a family get-together this weekend (be back Sunday afternoon). I hope your weekend is spectacular.
So, here we go – OPEN THREAD!!! I know, I know, you’re trembling with excitement. Use this space, if you so choose, to tell any- and everyone if you’ve seen a summer movie, what’s the most overrated major rock group of all time, what’s the best way to build on momentum after a great day yesterday in Iraq, how many Frank Rich columns in the next calendar year will feature the word ‘quagmire’ (answer: all of them)…you name it!
Also, a big shout out to one of my original supporters, the wonderful Nettie, who is celebrating her second blogiversary in a unique way – by asking various personages (including yours truly) to contribute essays on the one-word topic ‘passion’, which she’ll be posting throughout the day. Happy blogiversary – you go, girl!…
Enjoy yourselves, and see you Sunday!…
X-men III was good eye candy, but not a good movie. Will be seeing Superman. Possibly some chick flick to appease the better half…not a large fan of movies anymore though as the popcorn at our theater is just not good. And I’m saving up for a nice set of couches for our newly painted living room…
Most overrated major rock group: Oasis. Most underrated: Violent Femmes
Build on momentum in Iraq: Send more troops. Kill more bad guys. Aid new Iraqi government by whatever means they wish us to aid them. Leave when they ask us to.
Frank Rich sucks donkey balls.
Is it fair to say that once your future bride has a bridal shower there is no turning back? If so, this Sunday will mark that day. I’ll be playing golf with my dad. Two weeks and two days I’ll be married and on my honeymoon in Hawaii. This is the source of my eternal optimism. If I weren’t so optimistic about the future I’d probably go crazy…
“Most Underrated: Violent Femmes”, I knew there was a reason I couldn’t stop reading your comments, we are simpatico. Most Overrated: Any and Every Hair Band except Van Halen.
Best wishes on the impending wedding (I was taught not to offer congratulations as doing so implies there may have been doubt you would find a mate).
I too have soured on going to the movies in movie theaters – and it has nothing to do with the popcorn (which I don’t eat). That venue no longer offers the magical experience it once did. Watching movies on DVD in the quiet and comfort of my home – absent the noisily annoying other human beings who frequent theaters – has become my preference. And there are so few good movies these days, which may have more to do with me than the movies I suppose, but the number of smart, interesting, and unpredictable stories being put out is very, very small.
As for building momentum in Iraq? The best time to kick a man is when he’s down. Step up the counter-insurgency effort (not that we’ve relaxed). They can talk all they want about how happy they are that Zarqawi has achieved martyrdom and heaven but we all know they are dispirited by his death. Time to lower the hammer.
TMS: “Freak Magnet” was a really good album that very few people I’ve met have heard. I bought it for $5 [cut-out] along with “Viva Wisconsin”, which is basically a live version of Add it up.
As for good DVDs you might be pleasantly surprised by: I thought “Mirror Mask” was amazing. As a side note, the live-action stuff was filmed in Brighton, England, which is where I proposed to my bride-to-be. She was going to a sister school for a semester and I visited twice and one of the weekends we went down there and it was absolutely incredible (fairly cold as it was in early April, but incredible nonetheless). Another DVD I checked out recently from the library which knocked my socks off was “Kung Fu Hustle”. That might be my favorite martial arts movie now. Or at the very least, right behind Enter the Dragon and Hero. Another good rental might be “The Life and Death of Peter Sellers”. I had no idea the man was such a wacko and Rush does a superb job of playing him (probably because Rush is a wacko too…).
But yes, many in my generation have no respect for people other than themselves. It’s rather sad. I openly apologize for much of what my generation is involved in, including the worship of pop culture. Too bad my bride-to-be still watches MTV…but, whenever that happens I go downstairs and play my PS2, cuz, you know I’m from the Nintendo generation. It’s a nice little getaway.
I honestly don’t know what else to we can be doing in Iraq. I’m just trying to figure out what will be enough to declare victory.
Comrades,
Best wishes for the upcoming nuptials. “She who must be obeyed” and I recently celebrated our 21st anniversary. There are certainly times I miss the solitary life, but in the end it’ll add years to your life. That may or may not be a good thing, depending on how the relationship develops (snort)….. but you get the drift:)
As to the current generation, mine brought in Ozzy and Goths and I couldn’t be more poud of the genre… posers excepted, of course….. Sadly, we also allowed Donny and Marie, so that sort of balances the equation….. Most under-rated band: Sisters of Mercy…..
As to Iraq, we are not the ones to judge the results. those will be better judged by the children who are now being born there. If that new Iraqi generation comes into it’s own free to vote their concience, to dress and associate as they wish, then much will have been accomplished.
To that end, succesive administrations will need to stand by them as we stand by Israel, and not abandon them as the leaders of my generation did the people of Vietnam. If we can do all of that, then the world can truly be changed for the better, but like the saying goes, it really has to WANT to change, and that change can only come from the Iraqis themselves. We can be the mid-wife, and the older brother watching over them, giving advice and helping them learn the ropes, but it all comes down to how much they want it.
Respects,
Gwedd
Mike, hearty congratulations on your upcoming wedding! (No presumption of doubt on your ability to find a bride intended.) You’ll soon be taught the secret husband handshake. It’s mostly done with a hangdog look while you say, “Well, I’d love to come out with you guys, but my wife said….”
And anyway, I’m of the Atari generation and I’m a father to boot, yet I still abandon my wife to go play on the PS2, so if you’re lucky, you never grow out of that. (The next GTA can’t come out soon enough for me. I just have to make sure to play it when the kids aren’t around, so they don’t ask things like, “Daddy, why did you shoot that cop?”)
On a more serious note, I’m not sure there will be a magic moment when we can declare “victory” in Iraq. The struggle in Iraq now is very much a part of the overall struggle in the War of Terror. I imagine the best historical analogy is the Indian Wars of the post-Civil War 19th century. they didn’t ended with a nice clean date and treaty signing you can print in a history book, but there’s no doubt the Indians were defeated.
Sometimes wars are like that. Victory does not become apparent until a while after enemy attacks peter out. I expect we’ll have troops in the region for quite some time, but that itself isn’t such a bad thing; we still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea, not to mention more recent “temporary” deployments like Kosovo. It’s mainly a question of when enough insurgents start recognizing they’re missing the bus by staying on the losing cause. The death of Zarqawi probably gives us a great opportunity to drive that message home. It might not work, but it’s definitley worth a try.
Gwedd,
What if they don’t want to change? How do we measure whether or not this is the case and if it is determined this is the case (in 10 years? 20 years?) what ought to be done? Do you think the Vietnamese wanted to change?
Thanks for reminding me the longing for the solitary life every so often isn’t necessarily a bad thing…(we’ve been together for 3 years, so I get that feeling every now and again, you know, about once or twice a week or so…)
Dennis: Thank you as well. It won’t be much of a change from current living situation as we’re living in sin and have been for a few years, so daily life won’t change much, but financially we’ll be better linked, which is nice. Hopefully that won’t cause too much trouble for us, which I’m told makes things suck for some people. I’ll just have to let her know I’m bringin’ in the bacon and that she better…oh, I’m just playing. I’m not even like that.
I was always a fan of the Sega Genesis and played the heck out of NHL and Madden games mostly. But now with the PS2 I’ve picked up a few RPGs because of some buddies and have been playing the heck out of them. X-men Legends games are fun. I really like the Rachet and Clank games too for some reason. Have you seen screenshots of the PS3? Holy crap does that look beautiful.
Anyhow, I agree with your “no magic moment” sentiment. It’s sort of unfortunate that it seems the media is trying to portray it as such though. Like there is this build up towards…nothing really. This whole left/right meme is beginning to wear thin, specifically regarding the war on terror.
Holy crap, I love it when it finally sinks in that it’s Friday, especially when it’s 45 minutes before you go home. Awesome!
Y’all take it easy.
I was really good at Pong, once. And a whole bunch of games that required two guys and a hand-truck to make portable.
As for Iraq I think it is up to us to establish the criteria for when we are done. This, too, can mean the endeavor is open-ended, but preferable to not having any sort of idea when it will end. We can’t have the end be ‘when there are no more terror threats’ because how can we know when that is, exactly? Sort of like the old joke about the man from Maine giving directions that include “at the last intersection, take a right”.
Tomorrow is my bride-of-nearly-26-years’ birthday. This is what we’ve lined up: gourmet-ish breakfast in bed, presents, golf lesson, early dinner in the Northend with the extended family, and then Kool & the Gang live at the Hatch Shell.
You wish you were me, doncha?
Mike, best wishes…
In unrelated news, Germany looked underwhelming in their 4-2 victory over Costa Rica, especially on the back line, and Poland looked innocuous in their 2-0 upset loss to Ecuador. This spells trouble for the US, as we have always had trouble versus Costa Rica (although we always come out on top), and we only beat Poland 1-0 in a friendly several months ago.
Back to the regular world…
“As to the current generation, mine brought in Ozzy and Goths:” mine brought in Ozzy and Harriet
“the secret husband handshake:” it’s more like “I’m really sorry, I promise never to do it again”
“Flash”
…
“I’m just trying to figure out what will be enough to declare victory.”
I don’t know if there’s ever going to be a defining moment like what we had in WWII – there’s really no event in a struggle like this that’s akin to crossing the goal line and spiking the ball. It never really ends – and this will most likely be an ongoing shadow war that will probably still be in play when we’re all old and gray. I’m not pessimistic, just considering the nature of the beast.
Most overrated band – agree with you on Oasis, and would add in Coldplay, but that’s just for this decade, right? Most underrated – Los Lobos, Mark Knopfler, Keb ‘Mo and Ben Harper – and that’s just for starters here.
Good luck on the nuptials – if you try to remember that the wedding is really all about the bride, that will probably help ensure that things go off without a hitch. My wife always acted like it was no big deal – but she really did enjoy being queen for a day (and of course, she deserved that honor).
Just got back from my vacation in the Bay area. How do you put up with the traffic out there? You also pay about $0.70 more per gallon for gas out there. On the other hand, the weather was great even at the coast.
/agree Mikeb. saw X-Men today and it was lame.
Congrats on the marriage.
To add something political to this discussion, Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich who led his squad on a house-to-house hunt in Haditha on November 19th 2005. Is telling his side of the story for the first time.
Needless to day it is very different from that of several questionable Iraqi eye witnesses.
“On the other hand, the weather was great even at the coast.”
That’s why they put up with the gas prices, Muffin.
So people in California put up with higher gas prices because the weather is nice at the coast? Then why do they put up with higher taxes, higher housing prices, longer lines everywhere, and so on?
Since I was born in the Bay area and still have many relatives living there, I do have an emotional tie but my common “cents” tells me that this is not where you want to live. In KC I can buy a decent house for $150,000 and I can drive 30 miles in 30 minutes. Traffic is not too much of a problem either.
The gas prices are higher because California emissions standards require the gas be further refined to emit less pollution. Also, Bay Area gas prices are higher than elsewhere in the state, because there are fewer distributors and gas stations here than, for example, in LA. My office is a five minute drive to my house, so a tank of gas will last about two weeks.
I moved here from Manhattan, where I traded a two bedroom apartment for a four bedroom house right on the beach, and saved $300 a month in rent. My taxes are lower and I don’t have to pay to park my car. So everything is relative.
My wife keeps telling me that when it becomes time to retire, we should sell our house here and move to North Carolina, or some other place where we can get the same house for half the price. I dunno. Every time I drive to work and see San Francisco Bay glistening at the bottom of the hill, I can’t see living anywhere else. Except, of course, Maui.
peter:
Let us know how San Francisco Bay looks after The Big One hits and Sacromento becomes a port city.
So, about the Iraq thing, the general tone I get is that since this is an ongoing endevour, no matter what the left does they will always be accused of “cutting and running” or “wanting us to lose” whenever they offer alternative long-term strategy changes that involve less troops/resources? I mean, the discussion of possible long term solutions should not end in attacks of the other side when trying to come up with some long term solution. To me, it is a policy failure if we have 100,000+ troops there for over 10 years. That is not a good use of our military resources. Maybe it is to you though, dmac? At least we can agree that there is some policy that is a failure, especially if results are not obtained (like reduced terrorist attacks or number of terrorists arrested, etc.) If we spent the next 15 years with 100,000 troops stationed in the area the whole time, but the number of terrorist attacks increased in frequency, wouldn’t you say that the policy might not be the best policy? How about 20 years? What if in a few years terrorists get through our defense and strike here? Would this not represent policy failure? Or just a “lucky” (from the terrorist’s eyes) strike that is going to occur every few years because you can’t crush every cockroach? There just seems to be a lack of measureable data needed to make good political decisions…
“To me, it is a policy failure if we have 100,000+ troops there for over 10 years. That is not a good use of our military resources.”
You bring up a valid point here – so let’s look at our other troop deployments around the world at present, and determine if their missions are worthwhile:
Here’s a rough estimate of our current troop levels across the world – this is the best source I could find, since you can just highlight the map and find out what the numbers are (and I trust Frontline as a credible research source):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pentagon/maps/9.html
So roughly, we have:
- over 100,000 stationed in Europe
- 96,000 in East Asia/Pacific
- 1,165,000 in US and territories
These troops levels are actually dramatically reduced from their historical numbers, due to the war in Iraq and the recent humanitarian missons like the Tsunami in Indonesia and the earthquakes in Pakistan. So the question is, are these troop levels over the past five decades (since WWII) a worthwhile deployment?
You’d have to start by asking the countries that have hosted these troop levels over the past three generations, and are usually reluctant to let us decrease those levels, when administrations make noises about reducing them.
That’s an interesting map. “Europe” is absolutely enormous, especially in comparison to Iraq. Same iwth “east asia/pacific”. I’m sure there exist various “progress reports” or some other such phrase to determine whether the number of troops stationed in the region is tactically sound. A 100,000 stationed in all of Europe seems reasonable. So does 96,000 in East Asia/Pacific (waterways are important). But, how many troops are on the ground in Iraq right now? According to the map, just over 109,000 were in Iraq and a few other countries combined. Is that stat accurate? I was under the impression we were closer to 125,000 in Iraq. Yeah, according to this it is 133,000. I’m not saying I know the correct number of troops or anything, but to me, it is a failure if we keep this many troops there over a period of say, 10 years, without substantial progress being made in death rate of troops (because, that would mean we’d be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 soldiers killed) and overall stability in the region, specifically the Iraqi government. I really hope there is indeed some indication that things will get better over the next few years, but if they don’t, I don’t see a reason to stick around for 8 more hoping that things will get better. The gameplan needs to change every few years or so to keep the terrorists on their toes, in my opinion. But, what the hell do I know?
In any event, if the Iraqis ask us to leave, I see no reason to press the issue. Leave with certain conditions attached and call it a victory, because a democratic Iraq was the goal and if insurgent activitiy is still occurring why is it OUR responsibility to quell that activity? What would be our motivation besides keeping oil prices low? Let ‘em have a civil war. We had one and we’re still learning from it (and revising the history as well, but that’s another story). I think it was a necessary step in becoming a better country. Sure, unfortunate, but necessary. If it comes to that in Iraq, it’s not the end of the world or an indication of policy failure, as some lefties would have you believe. It would just be a very difficult political ballgame if that becomes the case, one which neither side particularly wants to play, but, like I said, it might be a necessary step. We’ll see though…
Sure, we’ve discussed previously that they may have to go through a civil war, in order to settle the long – standing grievances that the Shiites and Sunnis have built up over the decades. Until they’ve had their fill of killings (and the private militia squads that both sides employ presently suggest that some have not, unfortunately), it may be the only way to achieve the final transition to a fully functioning democracy.
As to Iraq, I agree that we cannot sustain our levels there for another 5 years, let alone three more. If they don’t have their act together by ’09, then it may be time to call it a day, and leave them to their own devices. The public will not accept a 10 – year timeline here, unless the combat fatalities are almost negligible, compared to present – day levels.
So there you have it, my own personal operational program to end all hostilities in Iraq. Pretty neat, huh? You know, my genius sometimes astounds even myself at times (sarcasm intended).
Well, I think the general public is going to have to elect different people then. Was the Korean War beneficial to our interests? Was it a wasted cause? I haven’t read much about it so I have no opinion generally, but the linked article says it’s a similar number of troops we kept around in Korea after the (non)war. Make of that what you will.
Since you have a limit already in your mind as ’09, why are lefties painted as wanting to ‘cut and run’ if they want to leave earlier? What would be the difference? If we stay until ’09 and nothing changes, will you say “oh, the dems were right about this”?
On a related topic, see this post by liberal oasis. Regardless of which party Scher supports, I think his point about the party differences is a fairly accurate picture:
“Because it shows the fundamental difference between the parties. Democrats believe we should eventually leave Iraq. Republicans don’t.”
Generally, I think that statement is true. Perhaps, more accurately it might be stated “The current Republican leadership doesn’t”?
The reason that “lefties” are often accused as such was illuminated by Rep. Jane Harmon’s (D – CA) appearance yesterday on Fox News Sunday. In the past, Harmon (who sits on the congressional intelligence committe) was quite adamant about staying the course for a few years more in Iraq, even though she voiced reservations about the conduct of the war in general.
Now, Harmon says that Rumsfeld should be fired immediately, and that the troops should come home immediately – not one, two or even three years hence. Since Harmon often speaks for the moderate wing of the Dems, this could be seen as the Dem’s statement of where they stand presently on the war. This is not an effective policy IMHO, since it does indicate that they’re completely ready to cut and run right now, regardless of the long – term consequences in Iraq.
dmac: Well, if we do decide to stay the course, and it turns out that that was the wrong course of action and we have to leave anyway (say ’09), they will not receive any credit for calling it correctly at this time, unless you make the argument that if we were not there the next 3 years it would be in even worse shape, but, given the amount of money we would in fact be blowing over this timeframe, maybe the ‘worse shape’ would be worth that cost where we could bulk up security on the homefront. I’m just saying that if the administration continues their current course of action, the dems will not reap any reward for being accurate at this time. If it turns out we are forced to pull out in ’09 (or some day in the future) because of some issue or another, it will be much easier for republicans to say “this is a strategic change” and there is no doubt the media will not be quoting democrats saying this is a “cut and run” strategy because they’ll be saying “this is what we said we should do three years ago”.
But, if things go well, the dems will eat their words. It’s that simple. If things don’t go well, the dems will be portrayed as ‘told-you-sos’. It’s a lose/lose for them. So, yes, in that sense I agree it’s a terrible strategy, but I’ll give them credit if it’s due them, even if they do the ‘I told you so’. Sometimes there is nothing gracious about politics. I hope they are in fact wrong, but fear that they aren’t…
Mike – as if on cue, check out the latest from Sen. Feingold:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-russ-feingold/redeploying-from-iraq-re_b_22636.html
So now we know where the party’s going on this issue – pull out now, without delay.
Testing…1,2..1,2???
can we get some support for our democratic candidates here in ga.?(this isn’t a “red” state).